Uganda Catholic Church’s Silence

Uganda’s Catholic Church Fathers are playing Blind, Deaf and Dumb.., to the Anti-Homosexuality Death Bill…

Have I been too harsh judging their silence? 

No. I am not.
Ugandans, like a lot of African countries, are quite religious. Religious organisations are powerful here. Just look at how the Inter-religious Council actually initiated passage of the Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2023.
But, apart from that power, these powerful men and women are highly hypocritical. The talk is just talk. What they do, how they behave would be scandalous, in any country other than Uganda. You remember Pastor Ssempa showing gay porn in church?   It is exposure in the foreign press that actually stopped him. In Uganda, he showed it multiple times in Churches and other public spaces, and it was only remarkable in the numbers who took the time to go ‘see for themselves’.
Someone took the trouble to list, without names, some of the ‘more recent’ Pastors scandals here. From bigamy, adultery, ‘homosexuality’ and others.

Calling out the Uganda Catholic Church’s deep, abiding hypocrisy, when I have the utterances of the Pope, the current, living, Pope to support me is just sense. 

I am [relatively] sure that when they comment on Uganda’s Homosexual Death bill, they will be the essential biblical Pharisee hypocrites, [in this story]  and they will throw up their hands and say, oh, we don’t agree with a few things, but the bill is law…!

In the AP interview on 25^th Jan 2023, Pope Francis noted that some Catholic Bishops advocated for criminalisation of homosexuality. He had just stated that homosexuality is a sin, just as much as a lack of ‘charity’ was also a sin… He stated.

“Acknowledging that some Catholic bishops nevertheless support criminalization, he said “these bishops have to have a process of conversion,” adding that they should apply “tenderness.””

Is the silence from the Catholic Church in Uganda the sort of ‘tenderness’ Pope Francis is talking about?

Or is it playing the Pope Pius XII handbook, hoping for exoneration later on?

 

gug

Papal Intervention

  

It is a curious position in the Catholic Church. In our eyes at least. I usually think of the Catholic Church as this monolithic edifice. A powerful institution, influencing the lives of many.

Pope Francis, in statements quite consistent from the beginning of his papacy, is relatively benign. Not benign enough to allow the ‘sacrament of marriage’ but enough to allow us freedom of body and life. Literally. [Blog post, Papal position]

That position seems to contrast sharply with what the ‘Fathers’ in Uganda believe.

““If Pope Francis would say that he doesn’t want any Roman Catholic priest, nor any Roman Catholic Bishop, to sign onto a law that criminalizes LGBT people in Africa, then the bill in Uganda dies. All the bills in Africa will die. His bishops, his priests are the ones championing the criminalization of LGBT people in Africa.””

So, should any remaining Kuchu Catholics in Uganda, and Africa appeal to the Pope to intervene?

It is a serious question.

We are not agitating for gay marriage. We have to be alive to get married. We have to be free of prison to get married. From statements from the Archbishop in Kampala, it is obvious that the Uganda Homosexuals Death Bill is a pre-emptive strike against gay marriage.

If the Pope offers us freedom and life instead of prison and death as offered [by proxy] by the ‘Fathers’ in Uganda.
We will take his deal, and lay off the ‘Sacrament of Marriage’. Seriously.

No, we will not debate about ‘charity’, ‘sin’ and other minutiae. It is a question of survival. The Pope has a better deal.

If the Pope would intervene…, Pretty Please.

 

gug

The Uganda Catholic Church’s Problem with Pope Francis

 

Horror of horrors! Am I implying there is a break with the Supreme Pontiff? With regards to homosexuality?
That is a serious allegation.

Gay bashing is a national sports in Uganda. The last quarter was ‘finals’ in a way; the party to beat all parties. The Uganda Catholic Church’s voice was curiously absent, muted.[previous post]
But, Pope Francis has been vocal.

The Pontiff has always had a frank opinion on homosexuality. Part of his job, so to say. Problem is that opinion contrasts black to white with the majority of Ugandans. And it contrasts [apparently] with the views of Uganda’s Church Fathers.., the most likely reason they are yet to release their ‘opinion’ 

Pope Francis’ views, as reported in Uganda, in an article in the Sunday Monitor on Sunday, January 29, 2023.[article] These are the Pontiff’s words, as reported.

On Wednesday (25^th Jan 2023), an interview with AP

“being homosexual was "not a crime ... but it’s a sin".”

“"It’s not a crime ... but it’s a sin," he said, adding: "It’s also a sin to lack charity (love for) with one another."”

On Saturday (28^th Jan 2023), in a letter in Spanish, translated into English on the website ‘Outreach’ Pope Francis says

“People who criminalise homosexuality are "wrong",”

“"to clarify that it (homosexuality) is not a crime, in order to stress that criminalisation is neither good nor just"."”

“I was simply referring to Catholic moral teaching, which says that every sexual act outside of marriage is a sin,"”

“"I would tell whoever wants to criminalise homosexuality that they are wrong,"”

“'It is a sin, as is any sexual act outside of marriage.'"”

Pope Francis is pretty cool, with regards to my sexuality. That is a matter of fact observation. The Monitor reported that he had written earlier to the same priest, thanking him for his ministry to LGBTQ individuals and stressing.

“the inclusive nature of Catholicism and writing that God "loves each of his children".”

Those statements from the Pontiff are pretty strong. I am no Catholic, but, I understand that it is much better to be unable to receive the ‘sacrament of marriage’ than risk death and prison, for being gay.

Ahem, and the whole ‘charity’ or love thing?
I don’t know whether any Kuchus in Uganda have been feeling any love from the Catholic Church, but I can confidently assert that, whereas we feel warmth from Rome, the wind from Rubaga blows cold when it deigns to blow.
Oh come on, which independent observer would try parse the language ofArchbishop Ssemwogerere here as the essence of love? 

I dont need to quote Jesus on love. I just need to quote Pope Francis.
The irony of it.

 

gug

The Catholic Church in Uganda; Missing in Action

 

Missing in Action?

The last couple of months have been eventful in Kuchu world terms; our world awash with commentary.
In casual conversation, the airwaves, (TV and radio, social media a flood); it was comments free for everyone. Know what voice has been missing?

The Catholic Church in Uganda. Missing in action.

I thought I had just missed it till this article surfaced. Of Archbishop Paul Ssemogerere of the Archdiocese of Kampala of an article on 29^th March.

““Regarding what has come out of Parliament once we have the entire Bill, as Fathers of the Catholic Church we will come together to discuss that Bill and give the position of the Catholic Church in Uganda.””

Does it mean that the Catholic Church in Uganda has not weighed in on the Uganda’s Homosexuals Death bill? That is what it seems to imply.

The free for all occurring over the country has been deafening. For the Church not to have received its invitation to the party, it must have been blind, deaf and dumb!
Or is the Catholic Church playing blind, deaf and dumb? There are clear differences.

 Not even a consensus statement to date?

Why is input from the Catholic Church important?

[Ahem, ahem, why should it be important?
Maybe because I know Pope Francis’ take on the topic. I wait, bated breath, for their interpretation…]

But, some statistical input. via Crux

“Uganda is among the most heavily Catholic nations in Africa, with 40 percent of the population belonging to the church. By 2050 it’s projected to have the second-largest Catholic population on the continent, at 56 million.”

Indeed. Father Lokodo was a former Catholic priest. And I know the number of the Catholic faithful amongst the ‘500 plus’ MPs is considerable.

“one of the principal sponsors of the legislation, a Member of Parliament named Charles Onen, is a former Catholic priest who left the ministry to go into politics, and the speaker of the Ugandan parliament, Anita Annet Among, a major proponent of the bill, is also Catholic.”

The Catholic Church in Uganda is large and powerful. Indeed, it is very, very powerful. The Pentecostals might shout their lungs out, the Protestants go their quiet way, the Catholics in Uganda are a major force.

How come the Catholic Church in Uganda has not yet been able to release a statement on the Uganda Homosexuals Death bill? Must be stuck in the bureaucracy.

Or, why is the Church playing Blind, Deaf and Dumb?

 

gug

Letter to the Pope

Dear Pope,

thanks for your very late guidance on all things human. But, as one human being to another, realising the power of your bully pulpit, I was wondering, will you get off the subject of HIV? I mean, hold a moratorium on all announcements, for the next 100 years, and start releasing up to date guidelines then?

Thanks. From a non-believer, feeling compelled to comment about this.

Pope Benedict XVI has opened the door on the previously taboo subject of condoms as a way to fight HIV, saying male prostitutes who use condoms may be beginning to act responsibly. It's a stunning comment for a pontiff who has blamed condoms for making the AIDS crisis worse.

The pope made the comments in an interview with a German journalist published as a book entitled "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times," which is being released Tuesday. The Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano ran excerpts on Saturday.

---

Now, the Honourable James Nsaba-Buturo was bitter.

He lost in the primaries of his party. The rulling NRM party. So, he loses, and who is to blame?

But, those elections were wrong, because they didnt bring out a true result, Buturo as his constituency's representative. So, what is he to do? He is to become an Independent.

Now, you do know where this non-believer's prayers are with this matter. Unfortunately, or fortunately, even Buturo knows

JAMES NSABA BUTURO

Buturo is planning to stand as an independent for Bufumbira East, a constituency he had lost to former presidential assistant Eddie Kwizera.

Sources quoted Buturo as telling a meeting recently that he was rigged out by people with a “mission of promoting homosexuality”. It is the reason, Buturo said, he was not willing to “give up the fight”. Sunday Vision was unable to get a comment from Buturo, who has been outspoken against homosexuality and prostitution.

So help me deities, but I don't understand this UN vote. Does it mean that gay human beings are not under the UN's protection when they are murdered like so?

A United Nations panel’s decision to remove sexual orientation from an anti-execution resolution is “shameful” and may encourage murders of LGBT people, gay rights campaigners say.

The body voted this week on the amendment, which was passed 79-70. The vast majority of countries in support of the change were African or Arabic.

Surely, the love our countries have for us is overwhelming.

Anyway, why should I expect for more from my beloved mother land?

gug

This guy is so Dangerous...!

Its a song, isnt it?

I love being gay.

Simply love it. The challenge to life, the challenge to prejudices and perception that forces itself onto one's self. I love it.

[Jumped out of bed on the right side, you see... that is why I am crowing about something which may cause me to be 'hanged' as my countrymates feel is good and fitting.] But, see it this way, if I was straight in Uganda, what cause would I have found to challenge my very existence, every day of my life since puberty, living behind a veil as a 'normal' person... while pinching and poking at life and existence?

Granted, I do know that being gay is not so different from being straight. Matter of fact. Say what they may, I know that. But, people will continue talking like I am the most evil of men.

Grin.....! I am SO DANGEROUS! I am used to scare kids in bed at night. You will be gay, you see!

Whats so boring is the fact that it is so normal. Give, mate, if only the extraordinary attention that the world gives to what is so normal to me would be diverted. But, I am just shy. Why should I duck my unique celebrity status?

This guy is DANGEROUS.

Bahati, Buturo, Ssempa. They all agree. And, why not. I am so dangerous.

Now, look at the brave football federation of Croatia. Don't know whether you have noticed it, but many people think us the scum of the earth. And, of course we cant be part of brave athletic sports like football, and others. Here.

And, another thing which is pretty consistent, when a person comes face to face with hate speech, or striking out at others, we are simply misunderstanding. [Even Ssempa was, and is, misunderstood.]

Markovic has since apologised ‘for a clumsy interpretation’ of his comments, claiming: ‘It was not my intention whatsoever to insult or hurt anyone.’

Give me 'clumsy'. Any time.

Another clumsy person. But, this is an elderly gentleman of the Catholic Church, who dares to say things that are the official church position..... but, it is not politically correct to say them. I give you the current, Catholic Archbishop of Belgium.

He calls AIDS a form of "justice" for homosexuals and wants retired pedophile priests to go unpunished. He says women who have an abortion will be greeted in the afterlife by their unborn child crying "Momma!"

Archbishop Andre Leonard, 70, was plucked from a sleepy Belgian citadel-town by Pope Benedict XVI in January to energize the country's Roman Catholic faithful and reverse 30 years of liberalism. The appointment was in line with Benedict's policy of putting tradition-minded and conservative bishops in important dioceses.

But since taking office, Leonard's hardline views have added turmoil to a church already mired in an abuse scandal. And, privately, some Vatican officials are expressing concern about an ever-worsening public relations disaster.

The controversy turned into a very public revolt last week when his spokesman resigned, saying he could no longer morally defend Leonard.

"I was his GPS for three months. But it is the driver who has his hands on the wheel. Too often, I had to recalculate the route," said Juergen Mettepenningen. He called Leonard a "loose cannon who thinks everybody else is wrong."

Leonard's views — and the way he delivers them so stridently — are riling the Catholic base, but they dovetail with church teachings that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered" and that women who abort babies are sinners.

Now, I have a sneaking admiration for the man. Why should hate speech be covered up? Like Ssempa, of the infamous 'eat da poo poo' fame, he is a man who speaks his mind. What if his mind is a sewer, and he is the Catholic Archbishop? Let him speak the position of the church without fear or favor.

Hey, what if the church is out of synch with life.... then, who else shows it so clearly but those who clearly ennunciate the position of the said Church?

Ugandans, my country mates are real fun.

When they bash gays, they expect things to just continue. Remember the 'Hang Them' headlines? They were not noticed in the country. No. I am not kidding you.

Why? Because, in Uganda, homosexuals simply do not deserve rights. When Nsaba-Buturo, Minister of Ethics and Integrity says homosexuals should forget about rights, he means exactly that. And, most fellow Ugandans will barely flinch. It is a known truth that homosexuals are not human...!

Anyway, what actually made news was the fact that it was news, and news in the west.

In more hilarious news,

Pastor Martin Ssempa. Forgive me. Pastor Dr. Martin 'eat da poo poo' Ssempa got so notorious online on Facebook that the admins there pulled the plug on that particular kettle of worms. Now, did I tell you that the guy is charismatic and the darling of many youths? They have energy, and, they are willing to go the last inch.

They have formed a group on Facebook to apply pressure for the return of dear Dr 'eat da poo poo'.

Snicker. The group has 116 members, as of now. It is a public content group. And all are welcome.

Need to find whether any of my facebook friends are on. You know...! Oh, you wanted the link? It is here 

Just been looking through the group members. Do you think they will ban Gay Uganda? I am so joining them....! Amama Mbabazi is a member of the group. And, the pics are cool, you know.. good. I mean of the guys on it. [Hey, bite me, am gay!]

Now, the question is, does Gay Uganda want Ssempa back on facebook or not?

We shall so see. Soon.

What are the discussions like, at that group?

Err, as of now, no discussions. Nothing but shouting to have Ssempa back on facebook. What did the gentle man do to be forced off?

He was so misunderstood! (Forgive my slip into Ugandenglish) Seems to fit in well, here.

As Afrogay writes,  for Ssempa the noose to tighten is little justice. But, what else can we pray for?

Ever wonder what would have happened if the 33 Chilean miners had been in Uganda? I don't. Wonder that is. They would have died, sure. No question about that.

Charles Onyango Obbo wonders actually. And, here is what he thinks would have happened

My friend Pastor Martin Sempa and MP David Bahati would show up at the rescue site. They would allege that one of the miners is gay, and therefore he should not be brought to the surface, as it was God’s plan that he stays in the ground. Only the heterosexuals, they would argue, should be rescued.

Well, Ugandans would have cheered Bahati and Ssempa. I know. I am a Ugandan!

Now, this less than satirical piece ends here. Tomorrow is Friday. And that means that I am looking forwards to Saturday and the weekend. Like a child promised candy, the thought sustains me through the rest of the week.....!

Have a great day, people!

Gay, Catholic, Priest

One of the most enduring mysteries to me is how gay people are drawn to religion.

I maybe wrong, it is a personal observation…. But, given the fact that our numbers are small, and have always been so, it seems as if a disproportionate number of us is drawn to the priesthoods… depending on the religion.

If one is to believe Ssempa in Uganda, many Pentecostal pastors are, the likes of Kayanja, etc, etc. But that may be just a case of professional jealousy. Diversion.

I have been thinking of that, because apparently the Catholic Church is seeking ways of making sure that no gay men, or homosexuals make it into the priesthood.

I am not lying. And, this is the 21^st Century. It is the last day of May 2010. The report is in the New York Times.

You see, there were the sexual scandals in the Catholic Church. And, they were blamed on homosexuals. Though there is this caveat.

the questions are also aimed at another, equally sensitive mission: deciding whether gay applicants should be denied admission under complex recent guidelines from the Vatican that do not explicitly bar all gay candidates but would exclude most of them, even some who are celibate.

 Scientific studies have found no link between sexual orientation and abuse, and the church is careful to describe its two initiatives as more or less separate.

But, the gist of what is happening is that it has been decided that gay and Catholic priest should not be something that is possible.

Still, since the abuse crisis erupted in 2002, curtailing the entry of gay men into the priesthood has become one the church’s highest priorities. And that task has fallen to seminary directors and a cadre of psychologists who say that culling candidates has become an arduous process of testing, interviewing and making decisions — based on social science, church dogma and gut instinct.

“The best way I can put it, it’s not black and white,” said the adviser, the Rev. David Toups, the director of the secretariat of clergy, consecrated life and vocations of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. “It’s more like one of those things where it’s hard to define, but ‘I know it when I see it.’ ”

Many church officials have been reluctant to discuss the screening process, and its details differ from diocese to diocese. In the densely populated Diocese of Brooklyn, officials are confident of their results in one respect.

“We have no gay men in our seminary at this time,” said Dr. Robert Palumbo, a psychologist who has screened seminary candidates at the diocese’s Cathedral Seminary Residence in Douglaston, Queens, for 10 years. “I’m pretty sure of it.” Whether that reflects rigorous vetting or the reluctance of gay men to apply, he could not say. “I’m just reporting what is,” he said. 

So, will it be possible?

Personally, I dont think so.
We gay people are attracted to religion. And that manifests itself in many ways, part of which is that despite a lot of persecution, we still count ourselves as believers. And, of course, people have been looking for that litmus test for a very long time. To know what makes us gay, to be able to identify it. The Catholic church has fallen back to 'gaydar'? Well, mine works not so well, but am sure that a few of us will slip through that hoop.

And, of course there is that reality that quite a few of the most ardent homophobes are usually homosexual....

But, the church's initiative is only so much homophobia. A needless, baseless fear of all things gay or homosexual. For crying out aloud, all priests are supposed to be celibate. Homosexual celibate and Heterosexual celibate seem to be different. Hypocrites.

Here is to Mary Glasspool, and to Gene Robinson.

And to all gay people who try to break through that glass ceiling. I was in one of our bars last night and someone was pointed out to me as being a Pentecostal pastor.... Power to you, as long as you dont see fit in the near future to go on a gay bashing trip. [I must say that my solution to the whole religion and sexuality problem looks to be much more logical, but, I am not everyone, am I?]


gug

The Catholic Church in Uganda

I like. Correction,

I love the pickle and bind that the Catholic Church in Uganda has found itself in.

To give a background, I am no Catholic. [Snort]

Of course, I am no Christian.

But, my lover is a Catholic. At the moment, one would say, a ‘lapsed’ Catholic, since I am the one who even noted that Ssempa’s Porn show was in Church on Ash Wednesday, a day I remember him celebrating consistently earlier on in our relationship. But, this time, he didn’t remember that it was Ash Wednesday.

But, thru the years, my lover’s evident distress and conflict between his sexuality and his faith made me research the Catholic teaching on homosexuality. I found it hypocritical, but couldn’t tell him that. ‘Intrinsically disordered’? Ha ha ha ha!!!

Anyway, I was happy to do the research. And pass on that which was relevant.

Then came the Anti-Homosexuality bill of 2009.

Ugandan Catholic leaders are good Ugandans. Which means that they are rabidly homophobic. That is the characteristic of good Ugandans.

And, it also means that they are suitably, strongly ignorant.

And, this time they were ignorant of the fact that there is an official Vatican position on homosexuality. And, that though Catholicism is officially homophobic, they have tried to inform their ‘stand’ with the knowledge that has been gathered over the years.

I have watched them twist and turn with relish.

Yes, I have. It is very interesting noting the official ‘evolution’ of their stand. And, the sticks that the Vatican has been throwing at them.

I know, the Vatican is no friend to gay people. That is a matter of fact. And, they are not going to be friends. That is also a matter of fact.

But, the official Catholic doctrine admits that gay people exist. And that they are so made by their creator. Or, something to that end. They just go ahead and expect us to be celibate…. Religion is interesting in its denial of reality.

But then, here you are talking to a person who laughs at the perceived freedom to think that I have, being non-religious.

Anyway, the bill came, and was in parliament. Suddenly, the Catholic Church in Uganda had to have a position. And, they had to quickly start informing themselves about what had been happening in the rest of the Catholic church.

I wonder, why do homophobes insist on being ignorant of sexuality? Just asking….

Anyway, the bill was in parliament.

Catholics make up the biggest religious group in Uganda. I believe Wikipedia says something like 38% of the population.

For two months, the Catholics of Uganda studied and studied the bill. They had nothing to do but study it. [Me, I kind of forced myself to read through it in one hour, and, I had come to a position. grinnnnnnnnnn. A negative position of course.]

The Catholics of Uganda were so silent that I decided to ‘jog’ them.  Of course, a statement from them couldn’t be positive with regards to me. But, the Bill is so bad, that I knew it was well past the criteria of ‘good’ that is piously mandated in heaven…, sorry. The Vatican.

Then, the Vatican came up with this statement.

As stated during the debate of the General Assembly last year, the Holy See continues to oppose all grave violations of human rights against homosexual persons, such as the use of the death penalty, torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment. The Holy See also opposes all forms of violence and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons, including discriminatory penal legislation which undermines the inherent dignity of the human person.

 As raised by some of the panelists today, the murder and abuse of homosexual persons are to be confronted on all levels, especially when such violence is perpetrated by the State. While the Holy See's position on the concepts of sexual orientation and gender identity remains well known, we continue to call on all States and individuals to respect the rights of all persons and to work to promote their inherent dignity and worth.

I considered it a slap in the face for the Catholics of Uganda. Here…

And, of course it was. They should have rejected the bill from the very beginning. [so should every Christian, however homophobic. (I don’t consider Pastor Ssempa a Christian. I value independence of thought, and there is too much evidence to the contrary)]

That kind of forced the Catholics in Uganda’s hand.

They came up with a statement. Nicely homophobic, and in ignorance of basic Vatican teaching on homosexuality. But, tucked in at the bottom was the statement that they rejected the bill. That was supposed to correct the impression that they were supporting the bill. Of course it didn’t.

And, to further outline their ‘principled opposition’ to homosexuality, the Catholic church, with the rest of the preachers, had one statement on Christmas day. All about homosexuality.

See, this ‘loving the sinner and hating the sin’ doctrine was becoming a bit cumbersome. They couldn’t show gay porn in Church, but, they could do other things. Like telling all Ugandans about how bad we homosexuals were.

Did any Ugandans leave church on Christmas day not convinced of the support of the catholic church for the bill? Err, nuanced support, of course….. Because they rejected the bill, didn’t they?

Someone has taken the trouble of picking out the actual differences between what the Catholic Church in Uganda says about the Bill, and what the Vatican actually says. Interesting reading, if you are interested in all matters Catholic. Personally, I rest on my laurels, thinking, Uganda’s Hypocritical Murderous Catholics. Parsing words as the fire burns, thinking about how much to show their hate when they should know better.

Am I too bitter?

Here is the analysis from someone else better qualified to read the small print of the Uganda Catholic Church statements.

F Young said...

Catholic Archbishop Cyprian Lwanga's endorsement of this March 9, 2010 statement by the Council of Presidents of the Inter–Religious Council of Uganda is inconsistent with the position the Holy See has taken at the United Nations in 2008 and 2009:

 

2008:

Vatican Statement on Sexuality and Homosexuality

Related link.

 

2009:

Statement posted here.

 

The Archbishop's earlier official position on the Anti-Homosexuality Bill was also inconsistent with the Holy See:

Ironically, the IRCU statement advocates "7. e. Counteracting the distortion and misrepresentation of the debate on homosexuality by the media."

Yet, the Archbishop himself appears to be distorting and misrepresenting the Vatican's position (or has the Vatican's position changed since December 2009?). Perhaps someone with a good understanding of the politics of the Catholic church could say whether it would be worthwhile to ask the Vatican to correct the Archbishop's repeated public apparent misstatements of the Vatican's position.

 The Vatican has already done this with respect to Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan (Cardinals are at a higher level than an Archbishop; they are second only to the Pope.):

http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=18103

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0905340.htm

 

 

F Young said...

I want to clarify my earlier comment about the inconsistencies between the ICRU statement and the positions of the Vatican. See my earlier comment for the links.

 Firstly, the ICRU statement fails to call for the decriminalization of adult consensual homosexual sex. This is a major element of the Vatican's official position and a life-changing/saving omission for LGBT's in Uganda. On the contrary, the ICRU statement says that homosexuality "should not be allowed in our society," and impliedly supports section 145 of the Penal Code by using its continuation as the basis for its argument that the Bill is unnecessary.

 Secondly, the ICRU statement fails to call for an end to "every sign of unjust discrimination" to homosexual persons, to "all forms of violence against homosexual persons," to "all grave violations of human rights against homosexual persons, such as , , , , , torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment," all elements of the Vatican's official position that are hugely relevant to Uganda.

 Lastly, the ICRU statement deplores that the "proposed law does not provide for the rehabilitation of repentant homosexuals." When read with the criticism that "the proposed death penalty and life imprisonment do not provide the sinner an opportunity to repent" and the statements that the churches "welcome the sinners to confess, repent and seek a new beginning," and "believe homosexuals need conversion, repentance, support, and understanding and love," one is left to wonder whether the churches are calling for "conversion" "therapy" as a "get-out-of-jail" card for those condemned to prison.

 Surely that is not the Vatican's official position, but then what does the statement mean when it deplores that the "proposed law does not provide for the rehabilitation of repentant homosexuals?" Conversion therapy, but you stay in jail anyway?

 What to make of all this? Has the Catholic Church changed its mind? Does it fear the government or a reduction in tithes? Does the Ugandan Catholic church disagree with the Vatican? I don't know.

 So, what do we do now? Is it best not to do anything? I don't know enough. The stakes are very high. Personally, I would appreciate input from people who are very familiar with Ugandan politics and the politics of the Catholic Church at the Vatican and Ugandan levels.

 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A definite NOT meeting of the minds.

Now, let me answer your questions. The Catholic Church in Uganda, in my assesment, was completely ignorant of the Vatican's actual 'doctrinal guidance' on homosexuality.

Their statements have shown that. And, they were not alone. So was the rest of the churches, mosques, etc. The homophobia in Uganda is fueled by an appaling ignorance, which they reinforce by branding any contrary information as 'promotion of homosexuality'. That is a literal mindset. We see it everywhere, in legal circles, with the MPs, with the Anglican church, and with the Catholics of course.

It must have been a shock for them to even discover that the Catholic Church does have a very detailed position on homosexuality. And, that it is very contrary to what the people here believe.

No, It is not government coercion. Actually, the religious people here were the ones trying to force the government to have the bill become law as soon as possible. Minimal debate mandated.

It is just plain ignorance.

And, I bet you that they are going to need more self education. Because, even though they will not show porn in Church, [how would the Vatican react???], they still have the same.... spirit?

Hey, I am allowed to be this forthright and brutal in my assessment.

And, my assessment is that they have been ignorant, are trying to educate themselves, but are still sticking out their prejudices.

No, icearc. I don't believe the Catholics forced the others to sign that statement. I think the matter of self education is occurring because too many people are suddenly understanding that most of the religious leaders are actually hate pedalling, and ignorant at the same time.

Sniff,

New knowledge? They could have asked me, long time ago!!!!

gug